Mailbag

*quietly sips a glass of napalm while staring through a window at the earth below* It's times like these, that I think about how grateful I am...

Grateful that this isn't a fireplace. Y'know, the napalm and all. It'd be a bad idea.

Yes, yes, I know, and you'd look adorable in a little moogle-sized firefighter's outfit, but...Oh, hello! I didn't see you come in. You're probably wondering where Charlemagne is. Well, he's...umm..."pursuing different projects" after the staff felt that he "wasn't what they were looking for in a mailbag host" and that I would "bring some fresh ideas to the table" and "inject some life back into a critical segment of our community." Not to mention they were "sick and tired of Charlemagne wasting everyone's time and-"

Eh?! Oh, right, PRspeak. Umm, ignore that last comment everybody...so anyway, the point is, in a most bizarre turn of events no one could have seen coming without the prescient vision that can only be gained with monetarily prohibitive amounts of regular spice consumption, I am now the mailbag host. And a most wondrous host I will be, I assure you. Prepare to be treated to a buffet of the senses! And not one of those cheap continental breakfast buffets either. It will be like a symphony of nerd humor composed by a 15th century wunderkind which was then honored by the Iron Chefs with a magnificent feast (theme ingredient: FUN!) that was then dined upon by the finest celebrities who sat with you and wowed you with their tales and insight while entertainment from such notable performers as-

I'm probably going to have to work on my sidekick situation. Actually, this whole mailbag transition has been most grueling. First, there was actually reclaiming the Mailbag studio. It seems Charlemagne had taken after his namesake and erected a grand amount of fortifications around the studio before leaving. This was no small feat I imagine, as Charl would have found it most difficult to make any progress without giggling uncontrollably at the though of "erecting" stuff. Hehehe...he "erected" a bunch of "towers"...hehe...oh, Charl...

Right...anyway, once we finally cleared out the resistance he left behind, we discovered that the studio itself was in severe disrepair from the owners prior to Charlemagne. This isn't a surprise, really...SG, Kagon and 984 in the same place for that long a period of time? I was surprised there was anything left to bemoan. But still, the place was a pigsty. Most of the stuff I probably can't discuss here due to our somewhat mixed audience...But I will say this: Manny's Discount Adult Emporium, if you're watching this, could you send me an e-mail re: your policy on used returns? I'm not really concerned about the money, I just want this stuff GONE. My haz-mat teams are kinda stretched to the limit, here. Also, Bill's No Questions Asked Reptiles and Domesticated Farm Animals Depot? Some of these things are still alive, at least from a medical standpoint. I think. You might wanna take care of them too. Before I have a zombie infestation on my hands and gain legal grounds to sue your ass.

Oh, but the troubles were just beginning. In my first week on the job, I recieved not a single entry. Not a one. Not even any Strong Bad e-mail rejects. I might've been able to work with that. (P.S. Chapman Brothers, feel free to call me) No, all I got was criticism and punditry from the uneducated masses of RPGC. Look at the paper! "Sorcerer declares worst era in mailbag history to begin; Kirokokori offers rhetorical affirmations" This, they call JOURNALISM?! It's mudslinging, that's what is. Well, two can play at that game. Let the records show neither of those intellectual heavyweights bothered to send me an entry. Hypocrites. I hope Kirokokoa-whateverhernameis enjoys being hunted down by zombie badger demons hopped up on cocaine, because that's what she has to look forward to! I know it sounds cruel, but an example has to be made here. That, and if I remove her from the picture I won't have to spell her name again. Nyah.

Kupo! *gives the middle finger as best a moogle can, which is harder than it sounds cuz moogle paws are weird like that*

And then the servers died, Merlin had four successive strokes that scientists are still working on coming up with creative but morbid names for, and everyone in charge at RPGC ran back inside their homes and fell back on whatever voodoo magicks they grew up on. In my case, I just went with what I knew, and set SG on fire.

I'm not really sure how that was supposed to help things, but it sure made me feel better. And now SG won't be cold, so his mother should be happy. And a whore.

To walk around and say "Kupo" I guess. It's getting old, though. Can I go now? I have a dentist's appointment.

Hmm...that reminds me...I wonder how TD and Pierson are doing since I glued them together in their sleep...

This chair feels funny...and it keeps making a muffled sound that almost sounds like "Please God let me die"...musta been all those old tacos I had. Meh.

Eh, I'm sure they'll be fine. Actually I doubt it, but am I my brother's keeper? Tormentor is more like it. Also I am 66% sure neither of them is my brother. Still, that extra 33% keeps me up at night sometimes...and don't even get me started on that 1% degree of error...I guess what I'm trying to say is...umm, I need a new mailbag sidekick. The moogle's gone...the two robot masters are broken (Hint to Dr. Wily: Lightbulb-based Robot Masters? EXTREMELY FRAGILE. Also they burn out.) and the others were just plain annoying. But wait! From somewhere off-camera, comes a glimmer of hope! Could it be?! Is it?! It isn't! IT IS!

Aren't dysfunctional families fun? Well, not as fun as breeding monsters from the Dragon Warrior series together. Zero can attest to that. (Good luck to you in rehab there, big guy. We're all rooting for you. Especially your +99 GoldGolem) So I give you Patty, who has her mother's kawaiiness and her father's crab arms.

*sets Energon on fire too* OK, that's the end of those festivities. We've got a MAILBAG to do people! In case you forgot the topic because of how long it took me to get this party started, the topic was: "If two game companies that produce RPGs merged, like Square-Enix, or decided to do a joint venture, like Square and Disney for Kingdom Hearts, what would the resulting games be like?" Kind of an appropriate idea since I'm taking over as mailbagger, I guess. So, without further ado, who's our first guest?

Oh hey there Tragically Confused Robot Stereotype from the 50s! Everyone, meet me other mailbag sidekick! He's a Tragically Confused Robot Stereotype from the 50s. Hence, the name.

MY MAKER CALLED ME THAT PILE OF JUNK THAT NEVER GOT ANYTHING RIGHT AND SCARED CHILDREN AWAY my master did not love me {weeping;.;}

I guess that's the best we can do for now. Anyway, I think he was trying to say "BlueMageOne" as the name of our entry. Oh, hey, it's BlueMageOne! I remember this guy from way back on the forums! I thought he disappeared, but I guess he's back now. Cool! Come to think of it, didn't he used to be just "BlueMage" before? Guess he found out he wasn't the only one. Life can be tough on a young upstart mage, especially when your class requires you to get hit by monsters on a regular basis so you can learn their attacks. Oh, BlueMageOne, share with us your wisdom!

If two companies got togeather (lets say square and disney) to make a game, it would probably result in something like Kingdom Hearts or even better, the Jetsons meet the Flinstones. The Jetsons meet the Flinstones was probly the best movie ever created (however I didn't actualy see it). Just think about it, a caveman family meets a family from the future, the possibilites are endless. I'd assume it'd end in Fred Flinstone clubbing George over the head, and dragging his wife back to his house by her hair. I'd totaly watch that movie like 50 times.

Didn't the Flintstones already have a guy from the future? That green little martian-looking dude? Gizmo was it? I dunno, if I was a Flintstone and I found out that the future involved little green men floating around doing nothing but bothering prehistoric mob families, I'd think the future looked pretty bleak.

Just wait until Johnie Cochrane arrives! *screams and falls, much to everyone's delight*

But the Jetsons and the Flintstones...hmm...Weren't they pretty much the same idea, though? Typical mob family in prehistory, Typical mob family in the future. If they were to crossover, the whole unifying theme would be that, beneath the superficial stereotypes of out time periods, we're not really all that different from each other, or the Sopranos. Of course there'd be all sorts of misunderstandings, like when some future girl mentions she wants to go clubbing and Bam-Bam overhears her...hilarity! But yeah, otherwise it'd totally be a temporal turf war as both families vie for each other's wedge of history and a piece of the action, until a Romeo-and-Juliet type tragic romance brings both families to an understanding.

ERROR TIME TRAVEL DIRECTIVE VIOLATED WARNING WARNING WARNING {searching for chronological inconsistencies; please wait...}

Even better, 3DO should come back from the dead and start making games again, that way they could join up with EA, and make an Army Men football game, and John Madden could be the leader of the tan army, thats another kick ass Idea. I'd totaly pay 50 dollars just to watch someone play that game.

Yeah, seriously, 3D0? More like 3D-Idon'tTHINKs0, bitch! More Army Men games? Good lord man. I mean, it's your life but I...and then teaming up with the heartless machine that is EA? As if 3D0 wasn't sucky as it was. I sure hope your next idea's better than th-

Nintendo and whoever made the matrix should team up and make a Matrix Kart racing game. Seeing neo shoot turtle shells at people in bullet time would be awexome. I'd totaly pay 50 dollars to play that game, and I'd totaly play it like, over 50 times.

Thats all I can think of, this is probably going to be the coolest mailbag ever, I'm totaly going to read it like, 50 times.

PS: My email client doesn't have spellcheck, so just go ahead and correct it for me. I'd do it myself, but I have to go destroy some incriminating evidence right now.

Oh, hey, it's Weiila! Who sent me an entry after I whined on the staff board about recieving no entries. See, kids, complaining DOES get things done

I ASKED FOR A NEW STICK OF RAM AND MY MASTER HIT ME AGAIN what is this...love...you humans speak of...

I'd rathar you didn't. My tetanus shots might not be up to date. And besides, the only reason we can allow you around small children and animals is because we tell the parents "Don't worry, she doesn't bite!" You want us to get sued for fraud?

Actually, that WOULD be relevant to Weiila...but that kind of thing we like to keep on the staff board. Cuts down on blackmail.

Don't take long, do we, Weiila? And by that I mean sexual performance! ZING number 2!

Say, Nippon Ichi and Naughty Dog. Strategy RPGs and platformers. And I admit having played through the Jak and Daxter trilogy in the past few weeks, and am a bit brainwashed, yes thank you.

It's kinda sad when you can be brainwashed by a thing like Daxter. What IS he, anyway? He looks like that stupid Davis from Digimon got turned into roadkill but kept the same approximate level of intelligence.

Let's make it Disgaea combined with Jak and Daxter. Man, I'm scared already. What we have then is a collection of sarcastic (and dangerously underweight) demons and a fallen angel in one camp, and a mostly silent, constantly pissed off badass hero with transforming abilities and a huge gun. And of course, his blabbering sidekick.
The plot would start with Jak and Daxter trying to go back in time (which they will probably do in their next game, because the plot more or less demands it), but instead manage to get themselves thrown into the Netherworld while Laharl and co. are preparing to go into yet another alternate dimension Nether and conquer that as well. Because Laharl has decided that he needs a summer place, of course!

His outfit kinda requires it. I imagine the nether realm is quite chilly, otherwise why would all those exploding penguins live there?

Jak and Daxter will of course not be too thrilled to be in the wrong place, but Laharl refuses to help them - hey, he's got an image to maintain, and regardless of that he complely lack both interest and time. At least until Jack blows a good deal of his troops to kingdom come, with a compbination of his morph gun and his Dark Jak attacks.
Reluctantly impressed, Lahalr agrees to help the duo - IF they help him in his upcoming war. Hilarious scenes ensue as Daxter tries to debate a better deal with Laharl, while Jak remains silent and tries to ignore Flonne's insistant sympathies as Daxter of course ends up retelling all the nasty details about how Jak learned to grow horns and giant claws.
Laharl of course manage to get them to tag along in the end, otherwise we wouldn't be getting anywhere with the plot.

In the first battle, the demons start working in their usual tactical chess-board way of fighting, which neither Jak nor Daxter are compitable with. After another slew of banter, Daxter manages to rearrange the whole thing into an action RPG, where you give your troops a few pointers at the start of battle and then take control of one main character who concentrates on taking out key enemies with either swordfighting (Laharl), spearbattling and sneaking (Etna), magic (Flonne) or gun and good ol' claws + dark eco powers (Jak). Jak can also be used for passing obstacles with his ability tofly, in which case he can be summoned by the other characters.

Sounds like shades of Dynasty Warriors. Come to think of it, Nippon Ichi making a Dynasty Warriors-style game would probably rock. Bonus Points! Robby, tell her what she's won!!

YOUR FATE IN LIFE IS SUFFERING AND DESPAIR AS YOUR DREAMS REMAIN UNFUFFILLED AND YOUR FRIENDS BETRAY YOU LEAVING YOU ALONE IN THIS WORLD

You may now commence mocking my words, though I'm certain you've been doing so during all of the above text. ;) No hard feelings, though.

Well, I hate to disappoint...umm, you spelled "combination" wrong. There, I'll mock that. "Compbination" huh?! What's that, some sort of compost mixture? Sounds pretty crappy to me. ZING hat trick!

I MOCK YOUR WORDS AS THEY ARE ENGLISH AND INFERIOR TO BINARY COMMUNICATION {linebreak;}

Mocking people isn't nice. I liked your idea! I think Jak and Laharl and Daxter are all super-cute! ^.^

Apparently Weiila and some of her friends take it a bit farther than that...y'know...yaoi? shonen-ai?

We should probably move on...Next up is Pink Lugia! Haven't heard from her in a while...

Alright, you asked for a response so you're getting one. It's been awhile since I've sent in a mailbag response, but that is for several reasons, mostly delays and such. Hopefully you can get a good mailbag going X. Anyway, onto the topic. First of all, I'm still waiting for a good Dragon Warrior/ Final Fantasy crossover RPG from Square-enix. I thought I heard some rumors about them making a mario party type game with the characters, but no RPGs. Okay, Storyline wise it might be a little hard to do, but they should be able to think of something like kingdom hearts to think of a plot and a reason why these worlds are colliding. But anyway, besides Square-enix, There really isn't a series or company's games that I'd care much about seeing mixed. Perhaps Golden Sun with some other series, But what I'm really hoping for is the Dragon Warrior/ Final Fantasy crossover RPG. Well there is my response, Hope you liked it X. Bring the mailbag back to it's former glory. And don't genderize me unless you want to be hurt painfully.

Or are you suggesting I would treat you differently just because you're a girl? Really, I'm crushed. Insulted. It is you who should be hurt painfully. Even a Lugia can be brought down with enough Ornithopters.

Hmm, this mailbag is getting expensive...but that's the price you pay for quality! I shall spare no expense! Except maybe slave labor. I'll use a LOT of that. Anyway, here's another e-mail from someone called Taran.

Well, I was reading in a magazine a while ago about what might have happened if Atari had accepted Nintendo's request for an American distributer. Imagine! Atari still producing consoles! They then went on to speculate about what could happen if other big names put aside their differences and worked together. Imagine if Sega and Nintendo had worked together! Imagine Microsoft's technology with Nintendo's name! It probably wouldn't last very long, if they did do it, but imagine what could happen!

I know this probably fits under the rant category, but it's all I can think of. Good Luck!

Imagine! Uhh, imagine...I guess he wants US to imagine what would happen. Which kinda defeats the purpose...

We'd better get another entry before Robby short circuits...uh oh, here comes...Rirse.

Well well well, MegamanX2K is now a mailbag master. I never dream of a day that a reploid with a powerful blaster would get a job doing this. Did by any chance Tanzra come back for sidekick duty? He was doing the job when you had that guest spot a few years ago, but it possible he might had died or fall into the trap door that was once used for Ultros?

Oh, Tanzra's out of commission for a good long time. Turns out his diet, like most daemons, was sorely lacking in Calcium. Back news when you're mostly a skeletal being. Yeah, he's got more osteoporosis than a season of the Golden Girls. I don't think he'll be up to mailbag again for a LONG time.

Oh don't mind me, I am Rirse DeBlood, fellow staffer and so call "sucky knight".

Yeah, Rirse's...different like that. Words don't really do it justice, you really have to experience him for yourself. Observe.

Anyway, about the topic of RPG companies merging...well it tougher now that the two big ones merged together already. But let just pretend that Square Enix merged with Nintendo to form Nintenix Squardo. In this new company there would be a new Mario RPG from Square Soft (not to knock Mario and Luigi or Paper Mario 1 and 2. They were very good games as well), but this time it would use more elements from Kingdom Hearts. Like Mario is now fighting strange man wearing rain coats while Bowser creates a powerful villain group containing Wart, Tengula, Wario, Smithy, Cackelette, Grodus, and Shadow Queen. Of course the coolest sidekicks were be with them, like Fawful, Waluigi, Kamek, Kammy, and Lord Crump.Throw in some crazy Final Fantasy cameos that are NOT the modern Final Fantasy, and you got a cool game.

Or we could get make a new rpgs that stars Ultros, Lord Crump, Gilgamesh, Fawful, and Seifer. Don't ask why poor Seifer is there, he just stupid enough to fit with the other memebers. :P Anyway, they have to fight against the heroes in a big battle for respect. Think of some other ideas for that game, X.

I dunno...Fawful, Ultros AND Gilgamesh? That's some comedy gold right there. Especially if Macc wrote it.

Well it was fun, but this is all from Rirse for this mailbag. Seeya next time X.

God DAMN that robot's starting to weird me out. And that's not easy. Dalton here knows that more than most, doesn't he?

I've always wanted to see a first-person shooter combined with the customization, complexity and story of an RPG.

Well, there's always the Deus Ex series. Never tried it myself, but I've been told that's what it's about. Or that weird "Stalker" game coming out soon that's supposed to take place in Chernobyl...I dunno about that one. I mean, you couldn't PAY me to hunt around Chernobyl...but maybe you could pay Dalton. And he'd glow at night. That would actually be convenient...New, Glow in the Dark Dalton! With Nuclear Burp Action!

Now, this is just wishful thinking and all, but I'd love to see Retro Studios (the guys behind Metroid Prime) team up with Media Vision, the team responsible for my favourite RPG franchise, Wild Arms! The combination of Prime's slick FPS engine and the sci-fi/western setting of Wild Arms would amount to an FPS experience like none other. Seeing as that Wild Arms is incorporating FPS-like elements into its games already, such as replacing character's weapons with guns, adding a "reload" command, and "bullet-time" like effects (seriously, they're adding this to 4th Detonator), the mix would work quite nicely, too.

And imagine some of the features! You'd be able to take your guns to the ARMsmith and customize the hell out of them for more monster ass-capping power. You'd be able to use Tools to solve Wild Arms style puzzles in glorious first-person view, or even use them on enemies! They could even work the FP system into the game; as you participate in battle against monsters, your gauge goes up, and when it reaches a certain level, you could blast your enemies with crest sorcery spells, fire off your entire clip at once, lock on to a monster for perfect accuracy, or summon the Guardians to devastate a widespread area with the elemental forces of Filgaia! And then there's the possibility of a Deathmatch mode...

Retro's awe-inspiring graphics and Media Vision's character designs would give us a brand new outlook on the Wild Arms series. The story and setting would be a cinch, seeing as that Wild Arms is always about freeing the world from outerworld invaders, a common FPS theme. And to wrap it all up, the high-energy musical stylings of Michiko Naruke would sound perfect in a FPS game.

Now, now, Dalton, turn that frown upside down! Or just get some botox treatments. You could use 'em, oldy Mcoldcowboy. Anyway, who knows? I mean, a Wild ARMs FPS isn't TOO far-fetched an idea, I mean, everyone's already using guns. I would think Free Radical (Timesplitters) would be a better choice though. They already have done hokey western style pretty good, and the monkeys would only help the situation.

Like I said. Maybe we'd better move ahead to another entry, this from someone called "Pure Imaginary". Which I guess means this e-mail is a figment of my imagination, but after reading it I wouldn't be so sure...

I would like to see Namco and the Seiken Densetsu III staff of Square join forces. They could create a game (or series) that captures the exciting nature of the Tales series combat, but the SD3 Square staff can contribute concepts to help generate a wide range of diverse characters (not just generic white mages, fighters, etc...) that players can freely mix and match to create a party to suit the player's specialized needs for a particular dungeon or boss fight. This style of game is perfect for hardcore players that want to squeeze every last bit of gameplay out of an RPG, where to complete a maximized (or rather minimized) game a player must choose precisely the right characters and precisely the right equipment, and must also squeeze out every last drop out of their characters in combat. At the same time, newbies and stubborn players are still permitted to fall in love with a favorite group and still grind out finishing the game using the standard level-up tactics. Everyone wins!

Oh, and a little math humor too! But that won't be enough to spare PI my harsh criticism. Seiken Densetsu 3? I realize you're new to RPGC and all, so maybe I should cut you some slack, but come now. Seiken Densetsu 3? I'll let it slide this time, but you only get so many chances with X...

Dunno, X just never liked it. I remember Cid kept complaining about X hating SD3...then again, Cid complained a LOT. Especially about X. "Oh no X nuked a lamer again" "Oh no X nuked my hat again" "Oh no X nuked my website again" etc. etc. It went ON and ON. A mystic can only take so much, I tell ya.

Hey don't fret, we've only got one more e-mail to go! Take it away, Alexander! (And please don't crush my civilization and get a crappy movie made about you)

hey-allo to the new administration! The obvious -yet stupid- answer to the grave serious topic at hand would be "like Kingdom Hearts". Or like Mario RPG. Or like Mario RPG where once you meet Link sleeping, Mario's and Link's mind would meld, thus leaving you the control of Link. Mind adding math: 0+1=1. Or silly computer code, whatever. Believe me, I love mario. He eats macaroni, you know? And jumps. Plain cool. One good joint venture would be a game programmed by a true friggin consortium featuring companies like Square, Circle, Rectangle,Nintendo,Enix, Capcom, Taito, New Wold Computing, Lord British and Blizzard.The script would be thrust upon the strong and able hands of Blizzard after getting recommendations from the other co.s They are the only ones to make a cliche story (OMG Aliens!) feel good. Maybe with a bit of help from the Chrono Trigger staff. The environment of the game would be awesome due to Lord British, NWC, Square and Enix. Interactivity, secrets, thousands of gaming hours (leading to population decline and fall of the Western Civilisation*). Capcom and Taito would add that touch that makes you think there's a lot more behind BoF II and Lufias (read my lips.or don't, I don't care). Nintendo would have the control of the gameplay (and maybe add a touch of Earthbound whackiness).And of course all of the minigames together with Capcom (think Street Fighter Alphas now).Visible enemies. There would be parental control for blood issues, so that a high violence and styling level would produce a d Galloway fanfic (sorry Nintendo), the characters would be rocking to the core.No silly polygons, guys/gals with feelings, issues and older than 15 y/o for Mana's sake! (53 with arthritis?) And they'd have style! By Square, Alan Moore, Jodorowski, budding artists etc etc. The soundtrack would be half-original/half-selected compositions. There would be secret characters, weapons, abilities, guitars (ehm..) and whatnot to inspire stupid fanpages that claim y00 c@n d0 d@ b337ch 1n d@ cu7sc3n3 f00! Short summonings.Yep. Short. Short I say!!! (FFVIII ahem..) Nobody could make a full shrine for it. Gamespot would drop dead (for the fun of it). The cash would flow m8! TD and Pierson glued together in a Harem Scarem! 567 interactive endings. 99.5 beginnings! I think I'll just stop now, I haven't read what I've written and it'll sound as if I'm on drugs (don't do them kids! There's so much legal sh*** to waste your cash and health on and empower the companies that UPHOLD THE COMMUNITY - Message paid by Proud members of Screw-you-over). Sad that such a game won't ever exist, isn't it? And we all know why... I made a joint venture of 10 co.s, not 2. There was the problem, I got it! I'll go deposit it now. Filled up enough space already. That's all folks!

The Sylvan Archer (TM)
P.S. I forgot the Fallout team. Anyone knows they rock though.or they funk.or whatever

Kids, drugs are BAD for you. Look at what they did to poor Alexander! He used to be a proud Sylvan Archer!

Wait, Sylvan Archer? Then shouldn't it be Alexandra?! Wow, who knew the mighty conqueror was a crack-addicted cross-dressing blood elf? I guess you learn something new every day. Even things you'd rathar you didn't learn.

Well, that's all the time (and by time I mean mailbag entries) we have for today, folks! Robby, what's the topic for out next bag?

DON'T SAY 404 ERROR! DAMNIT isn't there ANYTHING in that worthless database of a brain you were cursed with?

Holy crap...I think we've just witnessed the first mailbag suicide in the history of the internet. Damn, I'm cutting-edge. Well, we'll see you next week!

Oh dear...umm...think, X, what to do...I got it! We'll have another season of RPGC Battle Royale! So the next 'bag will be the good guys semi-finals. Pit four RPG Heroes against each other, and let the carnage ensue! Bribes are still welcome, of course. Whatever gets the ratings up. Oh, and since Gogo was the winner when Macc did it, he's disqualified. Lemme repeat: NO GOGO. Gogo a no-go. No go, Gogo...

As I thought. Anyway, if you want inspiration, check out the mailbag archives, when Macc was maintainer. Those were the golden days of RPGC...sigh...I missed those times. Who knows, maybe this'll help bring back some of the old RPGC community spirit we've been missing lately...At the very least, a lot of people will die. So everybody wins!

They knew the risks when they signed up. Even if they signed up against their will.

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