RPG Classics Mailbag

Owwww...

Is oo hurtin'? C'mere, let Daddy kiss it all better...

GET AWAY FROM ME!

Heheh...

Anyhoo... I'm in a bit of pain here with me leg, so I'm lucky today's mailbag is a "serious" one. Not too many answers, either... *digs around*

There. Looks like basically everyone agreed that games *were* getting too complex (with a few dissenters). Let's dive right in with how DivineTuna puts it:

I prefer the older systems; after all they are simpler and less of a pain.
Let's compare games
Final Fantasy 4: An old but basically perfect system; after all you build up everything by just fighting; no messing with espers or materia; just raw Exp and Gold; Magic is gained with levels, magic used with MP
And now for the other end the spectrum: Final Fantasy 8: leveling doesn't do much; with stats being gained from junctioning spells, which you draw uses from enemies or turning items into them. I see nothing but a too much building up; in short too much innovation.
This is why I prefer things like the Snes FF's and FF9 (With certain tools; you can reduce the building to a low but not game busting amount)

Let me get this straight. You think FF8 was worse because it has LESS level building? O_o So mindless holding-down-the-A-button is a good thing in games, eh? Oh well, each to his own. Meself, I think making you think more than the FF4 system is a good thing, much as the classic gamer enthusiasts who come here disagree. *is tackled by ten thousand classic gamer enthusiasts* Um! While I - oof! - deal with this, here's - owww! - Mabatsekker's e-mail! GEROFF!

It's me! Mabatsekker! First of all: WAZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

*waits for 5 billion ather people to scream WAZAAAAAAAAAAAAA*

(Good, that also means SKILLLLLLLLLLLLLLL in japanese)

Yeah. Except that the phrase is "wazzup", as in "what's up", which means nothing at all in Japanese. But to Lunaris it means "say that again and have a humorously-named weapon shoved in an inconvenient body part".

*is standing there, eyes blood-shooted, breating maniacly*

Well, your mighty terrible and abnormal subject has captivated my mind and, thus I shall make you mad! MAD!! First: Chrono Cross: Excellent for a new battle system, but the game itself was left kinda dry, what with all the running around in same places. But Square had ONE (1, yksi, ein, ett) problem after that:

*Begin Silence*
Vagrant Story.
*End Silence. Thank you*

I really can't stress enough about the fact when I swing my enemy into the head with my 30+ kg warhammer, it only deals 1-3 damage, and that sucks ass (*Insert Tales of Phantasia Too-ra-loo-ra-loo singers here*)
And, even though I can swing that enemy approx. 30 times in one second, (45 is my record with a one hander axe) which is the time that the blows are executed, they still do more damage with one attack. Break Arts saved the game; Last battle was also doing 10-67 with the combos, and Break Arts cut the battle time about 90%(I still had to heal about ten times after that; using Break Arts consumed thy HP)!!

Sure, It might have been the classic munchkin (tm) technique but who cares!!

And really, Chrono Trigger Rocks; All the characters, except that Janus fellow can make twin or even triple (enter Magus here) combos, which kicked serious arse.

P.s: How do you think that Cid is pronounced: like Kid or like Sid? I'm rooting for Kid!

Best Regards, Mabatsekker...or Maba for short (You were waiting for this weren't you?)

Sorry, but it's pronounced Sid. 8-) If you've seen the FF movie, the Cid in there is not only pronounced Sid, it's even *spelled* Sid (what a bunch of doofuses). I do agree that VS had it a bit too much in the complicated way, but most new games aren't as bad as that. 8-) Here's... um, "d galloway" with a running commentary - hey! Come back! Damn commentaries, always running...

*Comedy-club-type drum roll-cymbal crash*

Thank you.

Their is a sad truth in the air. RPGs are becoming complex. And the sad truth is, the more complex they get, the worse they are. Back in the Good Old Days, RPGs focused on the basics: levels, dungeons, and magic. Today, that has changed due to the public obsession with complex puzzles, different MP systems, and the ultimate evil: Squaresoft. I would kill for the good ol' RPGs of old, but it looks like I'm stuck with Square for the time being.

Wow, what a great letter! Amazing how you managed to make broad statements without backing a single one of them up! What a masterpiece! </heavy sarcasm> Ahem. Sorry, sometimes I get the urge to do that. Let's see someone who CAN back up their statements, and is a newbie to boot!!!!!! ...!

Hello Cidolfas, I'm Igatona. Long-time reader first time caller. Something to that extent.

*Fanfare music plays*

Well, I believe that games nowadays are trying to put too much options in gameplay that it makes the game suck outright. But it's not getting any more complex. Have you played Inindo : Way Of The Ninja [...No.], it's very very complicated to get the balance between working for a Daimyo, training to be an Iga Ninja and extracting your revenge on Nobunaga. Games today make the simple context of role-playing the character you see on screen look like a chore, RPG instruction booklets are huger than racing or sports, which have really complex gameplay (Not counting Blast Lacrosse though). RPGs don't need complex gameplay to be enjoyable, they need better plots and simple gameplay. When I start to play an RPG, I want to be able to get a feel for the controls and for the characters. Also, we need RPGs that exploit 4-5 ways of beating bosses, instead of the way Squaresoft and many others use, by simply choosing the strongest attack and hope it hits and heal when you need it. I want many attacks, with none being more powerful than the other. A swordsman in earlier times's strength wasn't because he was more experienced than the other, it was because he was more versatile. Of course, there'll never be a game like that so I'll stop hoping and say "Dammit"

But explain to me what the point of having ten attacks that do exactly the same thing would be? And... you haven't played Chrono Trigger, have you? I do agree that having a game which, instead of making damage show up in neat little numbers, made you exploit weaknesses in bosses and monsters by using your brain or your motor skills.

Another thing too, instead of making the gameplay more complicated, they should improve on what they already have, many gameplay ideas are scrapped because of an unsuccessful title. Take FF2j's gameplay, it's one of my favorite ways for roleplaying, and Koudelka borrowed from the linear level-building and FF2j's weapons and spells system. That is one of the reason why I consider Koudelka to be one of the best games ever to grace the PSX. It has an enticing storyline and GREAT background for the mansion and characters. Which brings me to another point, background. Instead of having 1000000000 bookshelves with only one book, why don't you make one bookshelf and you can choose among the many books in it what book you want to read? That would save time, except maybe in programming and it would look so much more real.

...Which has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. O_o If you enjoyed FF2j, I highly recommend the SaGa series. I just KNOW Lunaris is gonna say something pro-SaGa here, so...

Of course, of course!! Y'see, the SaGa Series are non-linear starting from Romancing SaGa 1(And it ended at SF2...let hope there will have a new non-linear SaGa.) and use a quite original leveling system and skill/magic system. No experience, your raise are based on the enemies you fight, what you do, how hard it was and a bit of luck. Techs(Wazas) are divisied in the weapon type you have(Sword, spears, etc) and are learned semi-randomly..but there is a few things that raise the odds of learning a new technique...And of course, the non-linearity mean a bit less character development...but the STRENGHT of it is that you can do ANYTHING YOU WANT DAMNIT!....Okay, that end my little rant...

There are many other things wrong with RPGs today, but if we improve on the gameplay first, maybe we'll want to play games with bad plots just because of the gameplay. Well, we probably won't, but they can dream, can't they?

Personally, I think the gameplay in the entire Tales Of and Star Ocean series far outweighs its plotline. Well, SO1's plotline was pretty good, but for the others in the two series, gameplay was number one on my enjoyment list. And I still play them more than any other, storyline-intensive games *coughXenogearscough*. And here's Feathy, hey, I remember this guy!

Hey it's Feathy. Remember me?
No, you probably don't.

That is so cruel. *sniff*

Anyways, I think that the new ways are a lot better than the old ones. I'd rather not be able to hold down A or X or whatever and be able to level up in my sleep (Lete River anyone?). FF8 isn't as weird as people make it out to be, if you really just can't understand junctioning then use the Auto command. Chrono Cross is definitely different, but I could kill stuff in my sleep. Vagrant Story was just weird. And, yeah, this is sorta embarrassing to admit, but Quest 64 and Paper Mario had cool battle systems. Anyway I like the new way a lot better than the standard menu of Fight, Magic, and Item. Go Ozzie. Yeah.

What a trailblazer! Let's give him a hand! *clappeth* I dunno, the one thing everyone had a problem with in older games was the level building, and everyone here besides me and Feathy seem to be ignoring that completely. O_o And here is Mr. Caws; when you're this big, they call you Mister! Er... no, that's something else entirely. Where were we?

In a word-Yes!

It can be nice to have an innovation or two, don't get me wrong. But games spend so much time and effort coming up with crazy new systems that I wonder if they haven't neglected the basics.

I know I would enjoy an old-fashioned boring buy armor weapons conserve-your-MP-or-you're toast game more than some trendy avant-garde-we're-too-cool-for-HP-and-MP-but-we-have-over-300-fully-customizable-statistics type that seem to hit the stores these days.

Maybe I'm just a fuddy duddy. But I'll stick to my inferior-graphics-simple-derivative RPGs anyday.

No one has really given me a decent reason why MP-busting level-building stuff is better... just you're more used to it, is all. Personally, I play RPGs for the intellectual stimulation. If I just wanted to blast things, I'd play shooters or fighters. (Of course having SOME action is good, but I do like to think a bit.) And there's no such thing as easy brain food. No thinking game is simple. If you want to be challenged, you have to be prepared to learn at least some semi-complicated rules. Then there's FF Tactics, which was the singly most enjoyable gameplay experience of my life, but it took several hours to learn well. There's always a tradeoff. I'm currently playing Lufia 2, and I like the meld of old RPG tactics with puzzle elements and slight innovations in battles... so far, anyway. Next up is LiteYear.

*A chilling wind penetrates the mailbag wall, and instantly fills the room with it's bitterly cold touch. The wind blows around the room, but slowly rotates into the center. When all the wind converges, a brilliant flash of white light appears, and when it clears, I'm in the middle of the room.*

Hi again Lunaris and Lucca.

j0.

For explaintions, Ozzie gets no greeting because he's a green, fat, pig-lizard mystic, Cid gets no greeting for the plot about "trying" to kill me messily, even though I admire the iniative, and Evil Cid gets no greeting because he's Evil Cid.

Well, I try.

I also try! Pick me!

For what?

...I wish I had friends...

Then do something friendly-like. Like leaving.

Hey! I never thought of that! Thanks! *leaves*

...With evilness comes extreme stupidity. It's a staple of pop culture.

So, I could have had the shortest mailbag entry with "No", but then I'd have no room for my flashy enterence, my flashy exit, my ridicule of the last mailbag, or Cid's futile attempts at deflating my ego.

Well, anyway, I think this question also deserves a sub-question of "Are these complacaited systems improving games?" For the topic question, I don't think games are getting too complacited. Well, they aren't for their target markets anyway. If an eight-year old picks up the game, well, that's another story. I can't say I played too many complacited games. Probably the most complaited game I've played is Ogre Battle 64, and that took me about an hour to understand everything. I think that these systems are interesting, but they aren't very complacited. Despite what I've said, I think that there should also be a universal system for most of the RPG's to share. Right now, you have to learn a different system for each game. While it might not be hard, it still is very tedious.

Well, you could hardly expect every game to play exactly the same way. Why would you buy one over the other?

As for my sub-question, "Are these complacited systems improving games?", I'd have to say no. I prefer the traditional RPG format over any of the new systems. I'd say these systems are making the developers detract from gameplay. Gameplay under the traditional RPG format literally kicked butt, but with the intraciteness of some of these new systems, it just seems that the developers are spending more time on making these systems work, than actual good gameplay.

Well, I'd best be going. I'll wait until a battle topic before I decide to show you the error of your thoughts about killing me messily, and any blatant flashy enetrence imitators. THAT MEANS YOU, RPGDRAGON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *Lightning bolts fire out of his body into random directions, slowly disintregrating me until I am gone.*

Sigh... still, no one has backed up with any reason why the old system is any better. Geez, I'm starting to sound like SephirothKatana. O_o *slaps self* There! If you like it, who am I to ask you why? Do whatever you want! Run around in your underwear and scream "The British are coming!" Sheez. Ahem. How'd LiteYear know RpgDragon was next?

WHAT?! MY DRAGON HUNTERS DINT GOT HIM!?

In channel #rpgclassics some people are watching RpgDragon's webcam when it starts to glow...the image seems to stretch and shrink and all of a sudden RpgDragon is standing inside of #rpgclassics. He runs to the mailbag, tackles ozzie and arrives (out of breath)

Greetings everybody! This is RpgDragon with yet another weird and pointless mailbag-entry.

Go along, nothing to see here...fill with the rest of the wackos.

This time I will discuss the importance of nanotechnical datatransfer through a static universe...

Oh wait wrong topic! Well i'll just tell what you guys asked.

I believe that the new fighting systems suck @$$ bigtime. FF8 for instance. The junctioning was funny (altough you hardly noticed the difference) but the magic system was crap. You have to draw magic from monsters you encounter. That sucks. Instead of fighting and exploring for magic you just find a monster and draw enough for the rest of the game from him. It is like magic has become an item! But crono trigger had a very cool battle system.

Most of the old rpg's have better combat than the new ones. But i haven't played a lot of new rpg's so i don't really know.

Before i go i want to do something: (RpgDragon shuves mentats up ozzie's ass, go kill him lun! He has Mentats!)

This is a family mailbag, person. Try something like that again and kiss your letter-printing rights goo'bye.

Well Bye!

*RpgDragon runs over to Lunaris and nicks his guns, he starts loading everone of them. He then blows up Ozzie with a turbo gell o' launcher. Picks Lunaris off with a Saddam Sniper Rifle. Throws a knife through Lucca and Paralyzes Cidolfas. When Cidolfas is paralyzed he places a time-bomb in the mailbag and escapes through his webcam. When he is back in his room he can still hear the explosion as he chuckles like kefka...*

Have you noticed that youths today are way too violent? O_o This is really starting to get ridiculous. Why don't you think of something real to say instead of just filling your e-mail with pointless shooting? ...Sorry, as I said, I'm in pain. And... that's it, no more entries. Your faults, all of you! You all suck! *slaps self again* O_o O_o O_o How about we just go on to next week's topic and stop this torture, yes? You'll have two whole weeks for this one, since I'll be out of town next Sunday. Hopefully someone will find SOMETHING to talk about, 'cause it's quite generic. It was sent in by Jarlaxle, and here it is: the RPG Academy Awards! Make up some Oscars and have characters (or places, series, etc.) win them! Bonus marks for whoever does a Billy-Crystal like song that doesn't suck! (Sorry, Gryzz and TG, that rules you two out. 8p)

Seeya!

*Groans and jerk back up.*That it you handbags! I SWEAR YER ALL GOIN' DOWN! *rush out befor his speech turn totaly australian and that the STDTD(Society To Defend The Dragons) lynch him*